The Broad Perspective Required in HR and Labor Law

Okuda: Mr. Ando, you have consistently handled corporate-side labor law matters. How do you position HR and labor within corporate legal practice?
Ando: As long as companies employ workers to conduct business activities, legal issues surrounding employees and the corporate structure inevitably arise. Moreover, these issues extend beyond mere internal disputes; they can undermine the trust of shareholders and business partners, directly impacting a company's operations. As a lawyer handling this field, I find significant value and appeal in being deeply involved in the process of resolving such issues early and appropriately, implementing preventive measures, and thereby minimizing the impact on corporate activities.
Okuda: So, from the company's perspective, it's necessary to consider not only the opposing employees or former employees but also the impact on the company's stakeholders, correct?
Ando: Exactly. Companies have diverse stakeholders beyond employees, including shareholders, business partners, labor authorities, and labor unions. When tackling HR and labor issues, it's essential to consider these perspectives while adopting a management mindset to determine the optimal solution that maximizes the efficiency of the company's business activities.
Okuda: The field of HR and labor relations has seen a succession of legal revisions, including practical aspects.
Ando: Indeed, it's a field that has recently seen frequent new legislation and amendments. It's crucial to keep up with these changes and reflect them in employment rules and practices. However, it's not enough to merely follow them formally. We must also consider socio-economic conditions and trends in labor laws abroad, integrating them into corporate operations in the most desirable way from both the employer and employee perspectives. In this sense, lawyers handling this field require a broad perspective.

"Comprehensive Capabilities" and "Accompaniment Capabilities" to Meet Client Needs

Okuda: Labor law has technical aspects like working hour regulations, and there seems to be a misconception that understanding labor law alone suffices for corporate HR and labor legal affairs. In reality, we believe it's a field requiring comprehensive capabilities encompassing other areas as well.
Ando: Exactly. While knowledge of labor law is essential, it alone is insufficient. In M&A, building human resource structures requires not just a labor perspective, but also consideration of corporate legal and tax matters. Furthermore, since labor issues often escalate into disputes, proficiency in procedural law—such as labor tribunals, civil provisional remedies, and civil litigation—is essential. Collective bargaining with labor unions tests negotiation skills, while crisis management and misconduct response demand strong fact-finding and evidence analysis capabilities.
Okuda: In corporate labor law, we often consult on matters beyond dispute resolution, such as designing personnel systems, including wage structures and adjusting systems post-merger, right?
Ando: That's correct. For specific system design and integration, we carefully consider the client's corporate culture, labor-management practices, and their desired vision for labor relations, all while ensuring compliance with the minimum requirements of labor law. Based on this, we strive to propose "customized system designs" aligned with the client's culture.
Okuda: This approach of closely aligning with client needs is essential not only in system design but also in day-to-day HR operations and during dispute or crisis management situations.
Ando: Labor law often involves highly abstract norms, making it difficult to arrive at clear-cut answers. Consequently, clients tend to prioritize risk avoidance, often adopting conservative approaches to prevent employee complaints, litigation, or reports to labor standards offices. However, as lawyers handling this field, I believe it's crucial to carefully grasp the daily realities occurring on the ground while discerning the client's true intentions. Rather than simply retreating to safe answers, we should propose practical solutions that lead to better outcomes.

Resolving Cross-Border Issues

Ando: Our firm routinely handles HR and labor consultations for domestic Japanese clients, but we also frequently receive requests related to international matters.
Okuda: The majority of our clients are companies engaged in international operations, including listed companies. Consequently, we frequently encounter situations requiring consideration of overseas group companies' personnel systems and labor management from a subsidiary oversight perspective.
Ando: For instance, when employees are seconded to overseas group companies, it's not uncommon to need to consider issues spanning both Japanese and foreign legal systems.
Okuda: Practically speaking, Indonesia restricts foreign involvement in HR and labor affairs, creating challenges for Japanese headquarters in managing local subsidiaries' HR and labor matters. Additionally, many Japanese companies second their employees to serve as directors or auditors at overseas group companies. In such cases, separate considerations are needed: labor law in Japan and corporate law overseas.
Ando: I feel that our firm's significant strength lies in our ability to provide consistent support not only for domestic Japanese personnel and labor matters, but also for issues involving overseas group companies.
Okuda: At our firm, we leverage our long-established global network to collaborate with leading international law firms. We provide advice that carefully considers the differences in systems and practices across countries. International labor matters involve significant variations in regulations, culture, and practical customs by country and region. Therefore, it is crucial to offer solutions that truly work in that country, not just theoretical approaches. Moving forward, we aim to accurately track changes in domestic and international laws while providing practical support directly relevant to our clients' local operations.